Talk for Wiki Project "Community generated news feed"

Talk about this Project

  1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Here’s the beginning of this: https://dev.wikitribune.com/newswire/

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      It’s work in progress and will be updated

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        It’s deliberately simple but will develop as it’s discussed here!

        Edited: 2018-11-12 19:34:07 By Simon Little (talk | contribs) + 1 Characters .. + 1% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

        Edited: 2018-11-12 19:34:31 By Simon Little (talk | contribs) -7 Characters .. -8% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Hi Simon, great that you made a start! How best to share ideas on the spec? Maybe a discord channel?

          1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

            Yes – let’s do discord then repeat the conclusions here 🙂

  2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    When there are multiple sources on the same story I would propose they’re linked up.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Yes, think that really adds value.

      I like the idea of merging summaries to form super-summaries of stories (based on multiple sources). Would need to think about how to make that easy to do and keep things concise as possible.

  3. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    “This is verified, posted to a non-sorted feed and distributed […]”

    What is a non-sorted feed?

    A feed by it’s very nature requires some kind of sorting algorithm. Sorting algorithms are not inherently evil.

    For example, let’s say the sorting is only time based – new posts at the top. Then old content gets buried quickly. One could then say, okay, float all new stuff and recently edited or commented posts to the top. Great, that’s called a sorting algorithm.

    You also mention grading posts based on factual/opinion content, use of sources, quality of reporting, potential biases… etc. All these things are only useful if you can find the content and made even more useful if your feed is also aware and can float more valuable content to the top.

    Sorting algorithms are not evil. They are a UX requirement for any product with a large quantity of content intended for consumption, that should only be shunned at the detriment of the service in need.

    You also need to consider the act of posting new quality content and scoring content. Why would a user come here and consume or contribute to a feed?

    Edited: 2018-11-07 19:24:24 By ORyan McEntire (talk | contribs) + 91 Characters .. + 8% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Yes, for ‘non-sorted feed’ you can read ‘sorted by time’.

      Please don’t be confused though, the ‘non-sorted feed’, along with the distribution of items to signed up ‘community editors’ is only a way of giving exposure to new items, such that they get read and rated by a subset of the community.

      The main news feed (which would be the primary point of entry for most users) is sorted (by community rating etc.) and indeed requires a very well designed algorithm.

    2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Yeah algo’s dont have to be evil. They’re only evil if secret and seemingly aimed at boosting advertising revenue like a certain social network.

  4. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    The Discord link at the top of the page doesn’t work for me. Is it stale? And isn’t the discussion taking place on this talk page anyway?

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      That’s been updated with the permanent version 🙂

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        Yes you’re right about this talk page and have made me question posting that link now.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          I changed the href to link to this talk page, but I haven’t published.

          1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

            I can do that for you 🙂

            1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

              Wait – this is a community post – that shouldn’t be neccessary.
              Will look into…

  5. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    I’d like to expand on this further. The first bit I need to clarify is the personel interaction.

    I am a little unsure about the roles meantioned and how they play a part.

    For instance does ‘community editors’ refer to anyone who uses it or a specific selection of people? I believe you mean anyone – and all could attribute whichever of the proposed values.

    What would need to be clear to any uses of this facility is that it is a resource gathering tool (correct me if wrong) and not a personal twitter feed substitute.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Hi Simon,
      second bit first. Yes need very clear shared ‘ethos’ of what feed is for. IMO sharing important news, facts not opinion.

      On ‘community editors’: anyone should be able to rate an item and edit the title, summary etc. However I propose actively distributing items to signed up community editors in an attempt to force some disaggregation, i.e. get the best items recognised rather than lost in the noise.

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        What would you say to an aggregator formed from agreed on feeds where each item could be tagged in various ways.

        Another feature could be “Write about this” or “Use as Source” to form some basis on a new article.

        Dealing with noise VS being as democratic/wikilike as possible is something that needs a bit of thought, as ideally we’d have both.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Tagging/categorisation of items is definitely v. useful. Encouragements to merge items, group sources and use as basis for full articles also good.

          Not sure about aggregating other feeds: 1) I would hope we will not lack for content – mass participation in WT hopefully! 2) we lose our first filter (the [generally speaking] good judgement of item posters). 3) we might lose what you could call ‘initial poster investment’ where posters do follow-up work on items because they are invested in them?

          1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

            That makes sense. Can’t argue with that 🙂

  6. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    The only bit I would take issue with would be the notion of stopping other avenues. But making a newswire facility is something I am totally up for.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Looks like that’s gone now anyhow 🙂

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        Yep, the ‘background’ was too distracting and contentious so i binned it.

  7. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Is what you are describing kind of like a subreddit with some modifications? Not that this is a bad things, just asking for clarification.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Thanks Radu, I hadn’t used Reddit before. I have just been looking through the /worldnews subreddit and it seems quite similar to what I propose. I does seem to get an interesting range of items from a broad range of sources. I think the summaries could be improved by Wiki-fying them. Filtering by sub-category would be a nice feature. Also the rating system seems simplistic and I don’t know how the sorting is done – these might both benefit from more sophistication. But it is definitely along the lines of what I am proposing for WikiTribune and I like that they try to give a clear ethos to each subreddit.

    2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      I think the summaries of news items could really be improved by wiki. I think you could produce short summaries to get the gist and longer summaries that try to capture all of the vital information in the item. Interestingly Reddit tries to generate summaries automatically using a software called autotldr. A WikiTribune news feed could also try to integrate the news feed with content / article production. If news items on the same topic were grouped they could form the sources for a full WikiTribune article that could emerge from the summaries.

      Edited: 2018-10-27 18:28:43 By Philip James (talk | contribs) + 6 Characters .. + 1% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        I could see this idea working very well! I don’t think it could or should become WT’s main focus, but it’d make for a wonderful addition, kind of akin to the way professional news organizations like CNN get newswires.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Yes, I like your analogy to the newswires. It is also makes me think more deeply about how news is actually formed. What you would get is the initial story, perhaps with only one or a few sources – either from newswires or material coming direct to the news organisation. The journalist picks this up, brings together any existing reporting, then starts verifying sources, adding new ones, broadening the story etc. At some point an editorial decision is made that this is a story to run with. It then gets written up, copy edited and published.

          I think a community generated news feed could be a key part of replicating this process at a fast enough pace but with the community in roles of the newswire, the journalist gathering together sources, the editor making the ‘newsworthiness’ decision, and the copy editor fact checking and improving the copy.

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