Title Title
'Atheist minister' church trial due after three years 'Atheist minister' church trial due after three years
Summary Summary
The minister said her atheist views have been known for years but only when they went public did the church decide to do something  A minister says her atheist views have been known for years. But only when they went public did the church decide to do something
Highlights Highlights
'I don't care if the church survives' - Gretta Vosper, the 'unsuitable' minister 'I don't care if the church survives' - Gretta Vosper, the 'unsuitable' minister
Content Content
<em>WikiTribune is still reporting this article and this story is in progress. </em>  
  WikiTribune <em>is still reporting on this story. </em>WikiTribune<em> has asked the United Church of Canada for comment and will add any statements we receive.</em>
Gretta Vosper, a self-declared atheist and ordained minister, <span style="font-weight: 400;">has been awaiting trial by The United Church of Canada's ecclesiastical court for over three years, on the question of whether she is allowed to continue in her job with her theological beliefs. The trial has been delayed several times but it is currently scheduled to begin in November 2018 for five weeks.</span> <strong>Gretta Vosper, an ordained minister, has been awaiting trial by The United Church of Canada's ecclesiastical court for over three years. The court is meant to decide whether Vosper should be allowed to continue her job with the church given her unusual (in the circumstances) theological beliefs – she doesn't believe in God. Vosper is a self-proclaimed atheist.</strong>
  <span style="font-weight: 400;">The trial has been delayed several times, but is currently scheduled to begin in November and expected to last five weeks.</span>
"T<span style="font-weight: 400;">hat's 25 days of hearing, which is a lot longer than much more serious crimes take," Vosper told <em>WikiTribune. </em>"T</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">hey're trying to use a disciplinary process for a heresy trial."</span> "T<span style="font-weight: 400;">hat's 25 days of hearing, which is a lot longer than much more serious crimes take," Vosper told <em>WikiTribune. </em>"T</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">hey're trying to use a disciplinary process for a heresy trial."</span>
<span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper, 60, wouldn't disclose to <em>WikiTribune</em> exactly how much she has spent in legal fees over the years, but said an organization supporting her have raised close to $70,000, "which doesn't near cover it."</span>  <span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper, 60, wouldn't disclose to <em>WikiTribune</em> exactly how much she's spent in legal fees over the years, but said an organization supporting her has raised close to $70,000, "which doesn't near cover" her legal expenses.</span>
[caption id="attachment_89185" align="aligncenter" width="1632"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89185" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20145240/IMG_4340.jpg" alt="Gretta Vosper leading her congregation in an adapted version of a hymn (Author: Marilyn Walsh)" width="1632" height="1224" /> Gretta Vosper leading her congregation in an adapted version of a hymn (Author: Marilyn Walsh)[/caption]  [caption id="attachment_89185" align="aligncenter" width="1632"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89185" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20145240/IMG_4340.jpg" alt="Gretta Vosper leading her congregation in an adapted version of a hymn (Author: Marilyn Walsh)" width="1632" height="1224" /> Gretta Vosper leading her congregation in a traditional religious hymn with adapted secular lyrics. (Photo courtesy of Marilyn Walsh)[/caption]
<span style="font-weight: 400;">She has been t</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">he minister of West Hill United Church in Toronto for 18 years, and</span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> her position has been under review, as an 'unsuitable' minister, since 2015. The <a href="https://www.ucobserver.org/faith/2016/11/unsuitable/">national magazine</a> of The United Church </span>published a picture of Vosper's head, with 'unsuitable' written across her face in 2016.  <span style="font-weight: 400;">She's been t</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">he minister with the West Hill United Church in Toronto for 18 years, and</span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> her position as an "unsuitable" minister has been under review since 2015. In 2016, the <a href="https://www.ucobserver.org/faith/2016/11/unsuitable/">national magazine</a> of The United Church </span>published a picture of Vosper with "Unsuitable" written across her face.
She doesn't understand why the church are taking her to trial now. Vosper said she was ordained 25 years ago with the understanding that her <span style="font-weight: 400;">belief was a metaphorical one and has been speaking about her views publicly and regularly since then. She said when she used to use the word 'God' in services older generations assumed that she meant "a father figure in the sky who treated us like crap and then saved us later on," despite the fact she made it very clear in </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">her first book that she "did not believe in a traditional understanding of God." Vosper's understanding of God is believing in the human spirit to improve the lives of themselves and the wider world.</span>  
  Vosper says she doesn't understand why the church is taking her to trial now. She says she was ordained 25 years ago with the understanding that her <span style="font-weight: 400;">belief was a metaphorical one, and has been speaking about her views publicly ever since. She says that in the past when she used the word "God" in services, older generations assumed she meant "a father figure in the sky who treated us like crap and then saved us later on." </span>
  <span style="font-weight: 400;">However, she made it clear in </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">her first book that she "did not believe in a traditional understanding of God." Vosper's understanding of God is people believing in the human spirit to improve their lives and the wider world.</span>
[caption id="attachment_89199" align="aligncenter" width="1947"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89199" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20155421/gretta-vosper-unsuitable.jpg" alt="Minister Gretta Vosper on the cover of The United Church Observer (Author - Gretta Vosper; Copyright: CC BY SA 4.0)" width="1947" height="1418" /> Minister Gretta Vosper on the cover of The United Church Observer (Author - Gretta Vosper; Copyright: CC BY SA 4.0)[/caption]  [caption id="attachment_89199" align="aligncenter" width="1947"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89199" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20155421/gretta-vosper-unsuitable.jpg" alt="Minister Gretta Vosper on the cover of The United Church Observer (Author - Gretta Vosper; Copyright: CC BY SA 4.0)" width="1947" height="1418" /> Minister Gretta Vosper on the cover of <em>The United Church Observer</em>. (Photo by Gretta Vosper; Copyright: CC BY SA 4.0)[/caption]
<span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper told <em>WikiTribune</em> many members of The United Church have privately talked to her about also "having nontheistic understandings of God" too. And despite speaking publicly about her religious views on a radio show for six years, only when her story got picked up on another radio show in 2015, and it </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">went more public did the church decide they needed to do something about it, according to Vosper.</span>  <span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper says many members of The United Church have privately talked to her about "having nontheistic understandings of God." Despite speaking publicly about her religious views for years, it was only when her story and views got picked up on a radio show in 2015 that </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">the church decide it needed to do something, according to Vosper.</span>
<span style="font-weight: 400;">"The church is becoming more and more conservative, and the reason it's becoming more and more conservative to appeal to growing number of evangelical protestants," Vosper told <em>WikiTribune</em>. She said the church should be reaching out to those who don't identify with any religion, but "t</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">he big tent concept doesn't work with them [the evangelical protestants]."</span>  <span style="font-weight: 400;">"The church is becoming more and more conservative, and the reason it's becoming more and more conservative is to appeal to a growing number of evangelical Protestants," Vosper says. She says the church should be reaching out to those who don't identify with any religion, but "t</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">he big tent concept doesn't work with [evangelical Protestants]."</span>
  <h2>Evolution of beliefs</h2>
  Eight years after she was ordained, <span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper delivered an off-the-cuff sermon deconstructing the idea of God, expecting that she would be </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">removed from her position. At the end of the service there was "like little bits of God all over the floor, and a bunch of people thought I had totally lost it," she says. T</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">o her surprise, board members were sympathetic and asked what it would look like if she delivered sermons without any religious language or mention of God.</span>
  She stopped reciting the Lord's Prayer in 2008, which sent attendance plunging from 120 people to 40 and damaged the church’s financial strength, according to <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/atheist-pastor-canada-gretta-vosper-united-church-canada"><em>The Guardian</em></a>. Now she says she has an average congregation of around 85, which is made up of <span style="font-weight: 400;">traditional believers, atheists and others. "We don't identify as an atheist church," she says.</span>
  [caption id="attachment_89187" align="aligncenter" width="1632"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89187" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20145817/IMG_4344.jpg" alt="Gretta Vosper's congregation at West Hill United Church (Author: Marilyn Walsh)" width="1632" height="1224" /> Gretta Vosper's congregation at West Hill United Church in Toronto. (Photo courtesy of Marilyn Walsh)[/caption]
  In 2013, Vosper self-identified as <span style="font-weight: 400;">an atheist in an act of solidarity with a group of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_by_Islamic_extremists_in_Bangladesh">Bangladeshi secular bloggers</a> who were arrested and later killed. "They were given the term atheist in order to incite hatred against them, and it worked," she says. </span>
  West Hill Church <a href="http://www.westhill.net/blog/2017/6/2/refugee-resettlement-we-wont-let-them-journey-alone.html">has a sponsorship agreement</a> with the government so that refugee, Ibrahim, an atheist and LGBTQ rights blogger in Bangladesh who has been forced to remain in hiding after his image was widely shared, can be resettled in Canada with his family.
  Nowadays, Vosper's church has no bibles and she's adapted the words to about 60 traditional hymns, removing all religious references. Rather than remembering Jesus' returning from the dead on Easter Sunday, West Hill Church celebrates an event it calls "Dream Away," which "addresses the picking up of broken dreams by those left behind."
  Vosper believes the United Church needs to constantly reform, saying it has done so in the past so that women could be ordained, then allowing <span style="font-weight: 400;">gays and lesbians do to the same in 1988.</span>
<strong><em>WikiTribune has asked the United Church of Canada for comment and will add this once we receive it.</em></strong> So why does Vosper still want to be a minister?
Eight years after she was ordained, <span style="font-weight: 400;">Vosper delivered an off the cuff sermon deconstructing the idea of God, expecting that she would be </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">removed from her position. At the end of the service there was "like little bits of God all over the floor, and a bunch of people thought I had totally lost it" she said. T</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">o her surprise, board members were sympathetic in a meeting afterwards and asked what it would look like if she delivered sermons without any religious language or mention of God.</span>   
She stopped reciting the Lord's Prayer in 2008, which sent attendance plunging from 120 people to 40 and damaged the church’s financial strength, according to <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/atheist-pastor-canada-gretta-vosper-united-church-canada"><em>The Guardian</em></a>. Now she has an average congregation of around 85, which is made up of <span style="font-weight: 400;">traditional believers, atheists, and and all kinds. "We don't identify as an atheist church."</span>   
[caption id="attachment_89187" align="aligncenter" width="1632"]<img class="size-full wp-image-89187" src="https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wikitribune-uploads-master/2018/09/20145817/IMG_4344.jpg" alt="Gretta Vosper's congregation at West Hill United Church (Author: Marilyn Walsh)" width="1632" height="1224" /> Gretta Vosper's congregation at West Hill United Church (Author: Marilyn Walsh)[/caption]   
In 2013 however, she self-identified as <span style="font-weight: 400;">an atheist, in an act of solidarity with the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_by_Islamic_extremists_in_Bangladesh">Bangladeshi secular bloggers</a> who were then arrested and later killed. Vosper said "they were given the term atheist in order to incite hatred against them, and it worked." </span>   
West Hill Church <a href="http://www.westhill.net/blog/2017/6/2/refugee-resettlement-we-wont-let-them-journey-alone.html">has a sponsorship agreement</a> with the government so that refugee Ibrahim, an atheist and LGBTQ rights blogger in Bangladesh forced to remain in hiding after his image was widely shared, and his refugee family can be resettled in Canada.   
Nowadays Vosper's church has no bibles and she has adapted the words to around 60 traditional hymns, removing all religious references. And rather than remembering Jesus returning from the dead on Easter Sunday, West Hill Church celebrate an event they call 'Dream Away,' which "addresses the picking up of broken dreams by those left behind."   
Vosper believes the United Church needs to constantly reform, saying it did so in the past, so that women and then married women can be ordained, before allowing <span style="font-weight: 400;">gays and lesbians do to the same in 1988.</span>   
So why does Vosper still want to be a minister? "Q<span style="font-weight: 400;">uite honestly I don't care if the church survives," she told <em>WikiTribune</em>. </span>  
<span style="font-weight: 400;">However, "h</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">ere in Canada, we are now currently experiencing the last generation that would identify as Christian." Among this generation people are</span> <span style="font-weight: 400;">more likely to volunteer, they donate probably three to four times more to charity, they vote way more regularly, and are far more engaged in their civic community, she said. </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">"My end game is civic engagement. I want people to be engaged in their communities and in the world. I almost drive my husband crazy because I am so passionate about the need for us to engage."  
  "Q<span style="font-weight: 400;">uite honestly I don't care if the church survives," she told <em>WikiTribune</em>. "H</span><span style="font-weight: 400;">ere in Canada, we are currently experiencing the last generation that would identify as Christian." </span>
  <span style="font-weight: 400;">Among the current generation, she says, people are</span> <span style="font-weight: 400;">more likely to volunteer than in the past, they donate probably three to four times more to charity, they vote more regularly and are more engaged in their civic community. </span>
  <span style="font-weight: 400;">"My end game is civic engagement," she says. "I want people to be engaged in their communities and in the world. I almost drive my husband crazy because I am so passionate about the need for us to engage."
</span> </span>
<span style="font-weight: 400;">If Vosper's hearing in November goes unresolved it will end up in Canada's civil courts, however that can't happen until it goes through the ecclesial courts. </span>  <span style="font-weight: 400;">If Vosper's hearing in November goes unresolved it will end up in Canada's civil courts. That can't happen until it goes through the ecclesial courts. </span>
  <span style="font-weight: 400;">And if the court removes her from the church? </span>
<span style="font-weight: 400;">If she is struck off from being a minister "there will be severe consequences for the denomination," she told <em>WikiTribune</em>. "Many who participate in congregations have outgrown traditional Christian beliefs long ago; they have stayed in the UCC because they have felt welcome. If I am dismissed, they will no longer feel welcome. As for my colleagues, they will be under a new and threatening regime."</span>  <span style="font-weight: 400;">"There will be severe consequences for the denomination," she told <em>WikiTribune</em>. "Many who participate in congregations have outgrown traditional Christian beliefs long ago; they have stayed in the UCC because they have felt welcome. If I am dismissed, they will no longer feel welcome. As for my colleagues, they will be under a new and threatening regime."</span>
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