Talk for Article "Cairo subway official complains that suicides affect operation"

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    What I would personally be interested in seeing is how the Egyptian government would go about proving this agenda through advancing this stigma about mental illness. This article briefly discusses how the government has a nature of oppressing its people, but further supposed correlations would help in understanding this headline.

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    Looks great everyone.

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    I would try to look into studies that explain why people sometimes suicide in such public places. Its obvious that this announcement by the officials would not serve to do much for a struggling person.
    A lot of the time businesses only care about the bottom line so when they start to see how it impacts their pockets they take action. Having a plan to help improve mental health is always going to be better than saying. Don’t suicide here as it will cause delays.

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    Hi Austin, could you give us some more sourcing here? For example, some of the outraged social media tweets or mentions. Is there a source for the story from the Arabic press (preferably in English, but not essential if you are happy with it)?
    And to help the reader maybe mention Mubarak … ‘to the one which ruled for decades before the 2011 revolution’

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      HI Angela,

      I linked to a story from the “sources” section, which itself links to a video where tweets and articles and all the details are explained and translated.

      Did you check this out? As you will note there’s very little in english, so I don’t know if embedding arabic tweets etc will be of much use.

      In any case if you go there you will have a guided tour of the source material. It would be a good starting point. I won’t be able to add any more to this for at least 24 hours.

      I just deleted the last sentence which compared this regime to the previous one, the point was about the return of autocracy, but equating the two is probably a bit lazy and unnecessary.

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        DU
        Deleted User

        Hi Austin,

        Thanks. I watched the video in the sources section as a starting point for attribution, unfortunately we can’t use it as a source as it’s not a trusted primary or secondary source.

        It references this link (http://identity-mag.com/breaking-egypts-subway-official-comments-on-suicide-attempts/) and the following quote, especially the second paragraph: “The subway spokesman, Ahmed Abd El Hady, commented on the matter; as he spoke about how unfortunate it is that “weak souls” attempt suicide in the same way very often, so they usually go to the nearest Metro Station.

        Additionally, he demanded from the ones who feel weak, distressed or anguished, not to use the subway as a suicide mean; as all they do is disrupt the citizens daily business and interests, also the subway is not a death instrument!”

        When I go to the two referenced Arabic sources I (admittedly using Google translate) couldn’t find anything to back that up properly.

        The masrawy.com link (https://bit.ly/2oEb20x) doesn’t mention anything along those lines.

        And the Akhbar El Yom link (https://bit.ly/2PZKaER) is also not conclusive. The headline gets closer: “METRO” TO THE OPPRESSORS: WE ARE NOT SUICIDAL. PEOPLE’S INTERESTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT

        And the body of the text says: “Ahmed Abdul Hadi, the official spokesman of the Metro Company, revealed the reasons for the increase in suicides in metro stations during the recent period.

        Unfortunately, I mean my weak-hearted talkers, who are coming to the nearest metro stations to commit suicide and get rid of their lives. They offer to throw themselves in front of the train while it is in operation, because the metro is the quickest way,” Abdel Hadi said in a statement. Transportation in Greater Cairo “.

        These aren’t close or clear enough to attribute the claim in this piece that:

        “A Cairo subway official, tired of people throwing themselves under trains, has told local press that depressed people should not consider the subway system as a “means” for suicide.”

        Is there a better local press source? Or is this simply a translation problem?

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          The woman making the video is my wife, a professional journalist who worked for the BBC, Al Jazeera, The Guardian and others as a field producer/fixer in Cairo through the revolution (and she has a degree in translation). You can trust her over google translate!

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            Hi Ed, As you will see I asked Aliya to come address your concerns directly. Hope that helps.

            I will be around for a couple of hours tonight australia time and can help integrate these sources into the body of the article if that’s needed.

            Edited: 2018-09-05 04:36:53 By Austin Mackell (talk | contribs) + 10 Characters .. + 4% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

            Edited: 2018-09-05 04:37:30 By Austin Mackell (talk | contribs) -1 Characters .. 0% change.‎‎ (Note | Diff)

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              DU
              Deleted User

              That’s great, many thanks Austin. As you know, attribution and transparency are fundamental to WikiTribune so we want to make it as clear and as accurate as possible.

              If you could make those changes/work in the attribution to the story, then let us know here (or on Slack) someone will take a look then.

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                Sorry I didn’t get to this. Glad others did it looks great.

        2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Hello Ed,

          Thank you for raising these points.

          Translation seems to be the main issue, but I’ve also gathered some extra source material from social media in English.
          First, let me explain about the arabic sources you linked to has key info about the latest suicide attempt which led to the interview with that Metro official (Ahmed Abdel Hadi) but does not contain the inflammatory quotes. But he is quoted talking about the incident describing the suicidal person.

          Regarding the Akhbar el Youm link , there is a mistranslation by Google, as the headline is actually, Metro to the Depressed: We are not a Suicide Destination, People’s affairs are more important.

          The specific remarks which I based my claim on and which went to spark outrage is the following passage from ElWattan News https://www.elwatannews.com/news/details/3631102 which claims in the same article to have obtained them directly from the spokesperson:
          “The official spokesperson stresses that the Metro systems are considered one of the most dynamic facilities in the republic as it receives millions everyday that rely on it in their movements all the time, and for that it should not be a destination for those who are mentally ill or those wanting to commit suicide, so as not to cause delays to the lives of millions of citizens.”
          Here is the original passage that is published in the El Wattan News:

          وشدد المتحدث باسم الهيئة، على أن مترو الأنفاق يعتبر من أكثر المرافق حيوية بالجمهورية حيث يستقبل الملايين يوميًا يعتمدون عليه في تحركاتهم طوال الوقت، لذلك يجب ألا يكون وجهة للمرضى النفسيين والراغبين في الانتحار، حتى لا يتسبب في تعطل حياة الملايين من المواطنين.

          Here below I will link to the social media response examples and the latest thing in English which came out since the posting of this story, might shed some light.

          Social Media Response Metro Cairo
          tweet 1
          https://twitter.com/Sandmonkey/status/1036602039361581058

          his account
          https://twitter.com/Sandmonkey

          tweet2

          https://twitter.com/EgyptianStreets/status/1036931397070581760

          source article of that tweet

          https://egyptianstreets.com/2018/09/04/failed-suicide-attempt-at-metro-station-sparks-controversy-on-mental-health-in-egypt/

          Report of attempted suicide arabic

          http://www.masrawy.com/news/news_egypt/details/2018/9/2/1420244/-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AA%D8%B1%D9%88-%D8%AA%D9%83%D8%B4%D9%81-%D9%85%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%88%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%AC%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%A9-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B8%D9%81-%D8%A8%D9%85%D8%AD%D8%B7%D8%A9-%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%B1-

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            DU
            Deleted User

            Great, thanks Aliya. Indeed, I figured it was a translation problem but it did also feel like we didn’t have quite enough for the specific claim that actually formed the story. So all those extra sources, and particularly that passage from ElWattan News, are extremely helpful. Thanks.

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              Does this get us out of draft?

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                DU
                Deleted User

                Have published this now.

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