Talk for Article "Spain’s Catalonia crisis: parallels across EU"

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  1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    ok I think this is an important subject and well done for raising it but the bit about Scotland annoyed me and I believe showed bias with a little inaccuracy.

    It is not true to say Brexit has prompted Scots to reconsider. A VERY FEW may be reconsidering but mostly it has been seized upon by nationalists (who always want independence) to stir up the issue again.
    Also to say the UK government want to leave the EU “come what may” shows bias.

    To use the words “crashing out” implies the same bias and who says prospects for independence will rise? only someone who supports the EU institutions and wants to see the UK fail outside the EU.

    Finally even the SNP have declared that an independent Scotland should keep the Queen as monarch so that is plain fiction.

    please revise the article.

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      Hello, I will look at modifying the following expressions: ”come what may” and ”crashing out”, although they have been widely used in the UK media. The other items you criticised, also taken from (mostly) UK sources, are more a matter of personal opinion. As for your remark about the monarchy, my point was that if any part of the UK were to become a republic, which in international law designates a sovereign state, that republic would most likely cease to recognize the monarch as its sovereign.

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        An independent Scotland can retain the monarchy – international law does not all sovereign states as ‘republics’ (that the United Kingdom is itself a sovereign state would confirm this of course).

        The precedent for new countries remaining monarchies after succession is well documented.

        Canada and Australia for instance retained the Queen as head of state after independence from the United Kingdom.

        When Norway became independent from Sweden, they did not retain the King of Sweden as the King of Norway – but they elected a former prince of Denmark as the new King of Norway.

        I would revise this in your article.

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          Hello Sam, thanks for your comments.
          – Naturally, a sovereign state can very well be a monarchy; but then it is not a republic.
          – Canada and Australia are sovereign states, but they are not republics (their full name is not Republic of Canada or Republic of Australia); they recognize the constitutional monarchy of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland as their ”sovereign”.
          – As you pointed out correctly, since it became independent from Sweden, Norway has remained a kingdom, with a different monarch. Neither of these sovereign states is a republic.
          – The article simply stated: ”With varying degrees of probability, and on a time scale that is difficult to predict at this stage, achieving independence could lead Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to each proclaim their transformation into a republic. And, as a consequence of seceding from the United Kingdom, it seems probable that they would cease to recognize the British monarch as their sovereign.”
          – As can be seen from the above, the point being made was not about the comparative merits of a republic or a monarchy; it simply stated that, if this or that part of the UK were to gain independence, it might decide on changing its constitutional form. And if that happened to be a republic, ”it seems probable that they would cease to recognize the British monarch as their sovereign”. Nothing more, nothing less.

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        thanks for revision. much better. I still think “republic of scotland” very very unlikely. even before our Act of Union England and Scotland had the same monarch. a Modern monarchy is well above politics.

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          @Anthony, thanks for your message. As you can see in my response to Sam, it’s left to readers to decide if they prefer a monarchy or a republic. And you have made clear your personal position, ”a Modern monarchy is well above politics.” The purpose of my essay was to provide an overview of regions in EU member states which MIGHT experience some change, and for which the situation in Catalonia serves as a reminder. To my knowledge, apart from this piece in WT, there has been only one other essay with a Europe-wide approach on the Catalonia issue (I’ll provide the link when I find it).

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    It’s stalled for now, but Bavaria’s aspirations might be worth a mention. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/04/a-german-court-has-shut-down-hopes-for-a-breakaway-bavaria/?utm_term=.b07638280215 (I say that as someone who doesn’t think this is a good idea, but just to be complete…)

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      Hello Chad, thanks for your observation, and sorry for responding so belatedly. It’s interesting, but as you put it quite correctly, ”it’s stalled now…”.

  3. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    This is quite a good starting point for the subject that the author is dealing with – parallel independence movements across Europe.

    I also think that it has been written in a professional fashion.

    I am interested though that when one writes about this subject in a ‘neutral’ tone, their is a bias in favour of the status quo.

    When reading the section on the situation in Belgium – its fragile nature, and mention of disintegration – its framed as a negative situation. When in reality many think that Belgium is a polity that is coming to its natural end… and it being replaced by a number of new, coherent polities within the European Union would be a positive thing.

    This article doesn’t (and perhaps can’t) hint at that.

    Anyway – just a thought, I am interested what the author thinks about this.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Hello Sam, thanks for an interesting remark. Having written reports for a long time, some to be read at high levels, I’ve learned that concepts or suggestions have more impact when they are presented in a ”neutral” tone, provided of course that those ideas or suggestions are themselves robust. In the essay I wrote for WT, one must be aware of the difference in context and time: whereas Catalonia has been described dramatically in the world news for many weeks, the division among communities in Belgium, though long-standing, has not been recently covered in the same fashion. Because of this difference, I chose to take a different approach: in the case of Spain, to point out that there is also another regional movement (Basque country), while the ”breaking news” about Catalonia is dealt with in thousands of other articles. In the case of Belgium (where I worked for several years), the problems have been less in the news recently, so I consider it useful to give a brief indication of what the debate is like among Belgians. Thanks.

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    Hi Jean-Jacques, I’m on staff (consulting editor) and just doing a last read for my colleague. AL

  5. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Thanks Angela. Just to help me grasp how things are being set up: are you the person who will clear my article for publication, or will that be done, after you, by someone on Staff?

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    Good piece. I am just having a last look over it as on-site Hispanophile. Angela

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    DU
    Deleted User

    Angela is going to clear it for publication. Thanks Jean-Jacques!

  8. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Ah, just saw Cassandra’s message saying that Angela will be clearing my article for publication. Thanks both.

  9. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Hello George, I noticed that you were editing this piece, which is still ”pending”. Is there any problem or question, and could I help? Thanks. Jean-Jacques.

  10. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Hello Piotr, thank you for suggesting the inclusion of Lega Nord in Italy and the Basque country in Spain. These have now been integrated in the text.

  11. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Hello Charles, last night and this morning I’ve been adding links to concepts and facts. Additional links will be added shortly. Can you please point out what specifically requires attribution and/or link? Also, in agreement with George, I’ve changed the title.

  12. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Jean-Jacques we need a lot more attribution and linking to the concepts and things you are writing about. Are you able to have a go through and reference anything that requires it.

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    George, as Guadeloupe and Martinique in the Caribbean are ”départements”, I suggest we keep that word here. ”Territoires” applies to other entities, such as French Polynesia. Thanks. Jean-Jacques.

  14. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Spelling: Brittany not Britanny To separatists movements in the EU, I would add the Lega Nord in Italy, demanding independence for a vaguely defined “Padania” region, covering regions around the Po valley and Veneto. Bavaria in Germany is making noises about splitting from the rest of the country, as they are net contributors. In Spain, the Basque country has a long and bloody (ETA) history of demands for independence, which seem to have subsided at the moment – we’ll if the Catalan situation revives their pretensions. Still in Spain, the Valencia region has a language practically identical to Catalan – with minor differences which don’t justify calling it a separate language, according to locals, but which has no separatist movement at this stage – so it’s not all about language and history, I reckon it’s down to local politicians creating a national narrative and building their careers on it

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