Talk for Article "UK won’t extradite suspected hacker to US"

Talk about this Article

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    DU
    Deleted User

    OK, I tried The Office of the Legal Adviser for Law Enforcement and Intelligence at the State Department, nobody home–I think it’s been de-staffed, then onto the The Office of International Affairs at the Justice Department. It was Kafkaesque, we’ll leave it at that.
    So now I’m going to look for the needle in a haystack. I want to find a US attorney with rights of audience in the London courts who has defended a U.S. citizen extradited back to Britain. I’ll start with the Berkeley Law School faculty. The school is hundred yards from me. I’ll also try Hastings in the city. I’ll try some friends and relations in town.
    I think this person would have a particularly interesting perspective on the subject and could be a portal to all kinds of people, information and data. If you know of anyone here in the States, especially in the Bay Area, who meets these criteria, let me know I’ll call them. Short of that, there may be some American attorneys in London who have defended non-citizens. I’d call them but that’s really your bailiwick. Jonathan

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      Fantastic, I’ll have a look around for the type of US lawyers working on this stuff in the UK. We should think a bit about the type of info we’re after though to make the best of all your effort – if it is a case of checking the most recent figures that does sound like FOI territory, and even lawyers involved might not have up-to-the-minute stats. On the other hand if you do have relevant contacts they may shed light on issues we haven’t thought of.

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    DU
    Deleted User

    No luck this AM, still poking around.

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    DU
    Deleted User

    Great, I’ll cold call the State Department and see if I can’t figure a faster way in than FOI. In the meantime I’m headed into SF for a dentist appointment, I’ll call this afternoon if I get back in time. Otherwise, tomorrow AM.

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    Hi Jonathan,
    You’re right – these statistics would add some valuable context if we can back them up (at first glance I think they come from this FOI request https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/191935/response/478757/attach/html/3/14%2002%2004%20FOI%2030178%20response%20John.pdf.html).
    I expect plenty more requests will have been made since then and I will have a trawl through the database to see if more info can be found (if you are interested in doing so, this site is excellent https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/).
    I would be happy to file more requests if we can think of a way to really add to this story.
    Jack

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    DU
    Deleted User

    Jack,

    I’m thinking about your case listing at then end of the article. It could be interesting to compare UK from US extraditions as to crimes involved, and outcomes. Apparently the Home Office compiles statistics available under FOI. I could only find a comparison of 2007-2014. Someone on Quora posted this, I have not seen the original. I’ll polk around the State Department and Justice Department to see if there is any US to UK case information arising from the UK-US treaty.

    2007-2014
    US Requests
    41 requests to extradite UK Citizens from the UK, of which 28 were agreed.
    21 requests to extradite USA Citizens from the UK, of which 12 were agreed.

    UK Requests
    25 requests to extradite UK Citizens from the USA, of which 20 were agreed.
    8 requests to extradite USA Citizens from the USA, of which 5 were agreed

    Jonathan

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    It was pointed out (https://www.wikitribune.com/project/wikiproject-fact-checking/#talk) that this article was potentially guilty of bias as I didn’t give enough space to the arguments in defence of the system. I have added a few paragraphs on the perspective outlined by the U.S. embassy and Heritage Foundation. Jack

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      DU
      Deleted User

      These additions suggest to me the story’s potential in longer form, dynamically updated, with enhanced formatting–highlighting its human interest and substantive aspects. It’s interesting to me that prior to reading the story I was aware of the issues and vaguely curious about the substance, but was drawn into the subject by the article and the subject.

      I like this human interest, gravitas dichotomy. I particularly like the case summary and considered submitting a graphic of charges and outcomes. If the story has legs, it might indeed be a candidate for a longer format–a subject discussed at Saturday’s town hall. That might include interviews with someone at Liberty and Sir Scott as well as with someone like Samantha Pressdee to balance or enhance Love’s comments, and perhaps graphics. I will suggest it at town hall.

      As an addition I’ve suggested the addition of the Treaty text and Love’s wiki.

      Jack, thank you for responding to my criticism.

      Jonathan

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        I think you’re right there is a lot that could be taken further here. I was actually struck by some of the Heritage Foundation’s arguments. They say that the controversy gets whipped up by people advocating specific causes related to the specific cases. So Love and McKinnon’s causes got taken up by internet freedoms groups, O’Dwyer’s by advocates of a more open internet.
        Any one of these cases could be the subject of a long read (and many have been elsewhere). I suppose it will also be interesting to see whether this case leads to change in the system, though it seems unlikely.
        Thanks for adding those resources.
        Jack

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          DU
          Deleted User

          I’m also very interested in implementation of the long form. Again, I’m struck by the empirical support in your article for emboldening the human interest, gravitas contrapuntal. Your links are very strong, but this time honored approach doesn’t resolve the inherent ambiguity between fact and assertion–a use and mention issue if you will–arising from perception of quotes combined with references and links. It goes to a host of issues addressed by a variety of the philosophy types. I think we have to get at it to attack the NPOV issues. Anyhow thanks. God, it’s 9, I could do this all day. it’s so interesting.

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