Talk for Article "Turkish court bails rights activists but Amnesty chairman remains in jail"

Talk about this Article

  1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Ok think I identified glitch — maybe better to address here and then can add the paragraphs back in manually? Questions in ALL CAPS and brackets.

    Ps thanks for patience

    Turkey claims the coup was orchestrated by the Hizmet movement of US-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gülen. One piece of evidence used [BY WHO] to assert membership of this group was the use of the private messaging application. [WHAT DOES BYLOCK HAVE TO DO WITH GULEN OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER? SPELL IT OUT FOR READERSS]

    While pro-government media in Turkey accused the defendants of using the Bylock application, the Electronic Frontier Foundation [[WHO IS THIS? EXPLAIN WHAT THEY ARE AND WHY THEY’RE CREDIBLE] has said that it is ‘profoundly unlikely’ that security trainers would use an application known to be insecure.

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      [THEN CAN ADD THIS BACK IN] At the start of his trial, Kılıç denied that he had used the ByLock messaging application which authorities say provides evidence of membership of a Gulenist terrorist organisation which pro-government media calls FETO [SAME QUESTION AS BEFORE]

      Kılıç was quoted as saying that two forensic reports found no evidence that ByLock had ever been downloaded on his phone. [IF THIS IS CASE THAN DO WE NEED EFF BIT AT TOP Or even mentioning pro-government MEDIA? this is in the CHARGESS, no?]]

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        I responded to these before but my version has now disappeared. Is there no way to just paste what I updated in my version into the live version? I can’t seem to find where my version has gone.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Hey there. Really sorry — having some glitches over here. Very grateful for all the hard work but think it’s probably best to leave this as is for now, until there’s a new development in the case. And we can do another version then. Thanks!

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            I’m not really happy with it, to be honest. I think it could be a lot better than this and I’m not really happy having my name attached to this as it is.

            1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

              Is there no way for me to see my original piece again?

            2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

              Ok. I *think* I’ve identified the glitch. You should be able to hit “edit story” now — and add your changes and updates. Hopefully I will then see those and be able to approve the changes.

              Please let me know though what you see when you hit “edit story” as the first sentence so can make sure we’re seeing the same version // glitch sorted?

              1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                Same as before. I can see and edit the live version, but my version with the changes I made seems to have been lost.

                1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                  Yes, because of the glitch.

                  1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                    So should I re-do those edits I made before?

                    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                      I think you should be able to go in by hitting “edit story” and add your updates. But please confirm what you are seeing as the first sentence of the story so I make sure you’re seeing the “right” version?

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                      But also recognize you’ve put a lot of time into this already and feel very bad about the glitches so that’s why I proposed letting it drop for now.

  2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Hi John — have gone back through your version and saved in “pending” with further questions to work some of those paragraphs back in. The questions/etc are in italics + underlined. Please address when you can and resave to pending so we can update. Thanks!

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Sorry, I can’t see how to find pending…

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        Ah sorry for jargon! If you click “edit” on story you should be able to go in and see those italics/bold/etc, yeah?

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          Ok, I’ve added clarifications to my version. I hope that’s what you wanted. I find the distinction between the live and my draft versions to be a bit confusing.

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            Sorry for the confusion! What is live is what is viewable to world. Draft is in the wordpress end, only viewable if you click in to edit. Will flag this to powers that be though in hopes of smoothing it out!

            1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

              The questions were worked in through the edit… Did you cut and paste in the old [unedited version] or address in the document itself where the questions were marked in bold?

              1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                I just changed my version and resubmitted it. I can’t see any other version.

                1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                  When you say changed your version — by clicking “edit story” up top along the bar of this? https://www.wikitribune.com/story/2017/10/30/europe/turkey/turkey-bails-rights-activists-but-amnesty-chairman-remains-in-jail/13504/

                  Or how? Sorry for confusion and thanks for your patience. Think we have a glitch and want to make sure we fix!

                  1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                    Yes, I just go to Edit Story and it shows me my version, which is not the live one. I changed that one. I can’t see any other version to change.

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    NEEDS MORE + BETTER SOURCING: been purging public officials and arresting journalists on the accusation that they supported the coup, which Turkey claims was orchestrated by the Hizmet movement of US-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gülen. One piece of evidence used to assert membership of this group was the use of the Bylock private messaging application, according to Hurriyet Daily News. Other evidence reportedly includes a map drawn by one of the participants at the training event, and an email from Idil Eser requesting funding from an embassy for a project on gender equality, according to Amnesty International.

    While pro-government media in Turkey accused the defendants of using the Bylock application, the Electronic Frontier Foundation has said that it is ‘profoundly unlikely’ that security trainers would use an application known to be insecure.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      I have added a number of new sources. Do you feel these are good enough? If not, please explain why.

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        Great, will take a look shortly

  4. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Cut: Thousands of Turks remain in exile as a result of the 2016 coup and the fallout, which has left many critics of the government afraid to speak out for fear of prosecution. Academics who have been banned from teaching are struggling to support themselves, with one group opening a cafe in the South Eastern city of Mersin.

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      Is there a reason you think this should be cut?

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        The exile bit is a nice line but don’t think it’s all relevant to THIS story. Plus, the struggling to support themselves bit [don’t remember exact link] seemed like needed more attribution // clarification on the source — or direct reporting.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          As far as I can see the live version still has nothing about the wider background with the Academics for Peace story. If you think it just doesn’t belong, I’ll stop trying to improve it and add sources.

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            I think I need some kind of advice on house style. You’ve put ‘according to X’ after everything. Is that necessary when you put the reference as a link? Also, are you going to put the list of references at the bottom or not?

          2. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

            Yup that’s because I worked the previously cut stuff back into a “draft” version so you can approve. If you clikc into “edit” yous hould see it [versus making it live w/ all sorts of editor questions].

            And yes — if it’s not on WT list of preferred sources, think it’s better to include attribution. Better to overattribute than under.

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    NEEDS ATTRIBUTION — and also does it need to be in this story?: The group ‘Academics for Peace’, who signed a letter opposing the Turkish military’s treatment of Kurdish civilians in the South East during clashes with the Kurdish PKK militant group, are accused of ‘terrorist propaganda’ by a prosecutor who is seeking seven and a half year jail sentences for the signatories. Ultranationalist mafia leader and government supporter Sedat Peker recently defended as ‘criticism’ threats he made against the group in 2016, when he reportedly said “We will shed your blood in streams and we will shower in the blood that we shed.”

    1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

      I will find more sources for this later. Thanks.

      1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

        Oh sorry, wrong reply. I personally think this should be in there. Does it need to be in the story? Well, I think it puts this story in a wider context that people should be aware of, so yes, I think it should be there.

        1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

          Ok. Then need to be clearer on who Academics for peace are [this is a story about human-rights activists as of now], why they relate, and also clear up the sourcing/attribution. Peker also feels out of place.

          1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

            Ok, will do. I know the situation quite well so perhaps sometimes I can take for granted that people know more about the situation than they do. I think Peker is a good example of a pro-govt ‘outrider’ who makes the kind of threats that are implicit from the government itself when people speak out critically about things the government are doing. The situation in the Kurdish region is particularly sensitive in this respect. As the Academics for Peace issue shows, you only have to say that the government should not be militarily occupying and destroying Kurdish towns to get accused of being a terrorist and taken to court in Turkey.

            1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

              Gotcha. Context is always important! Thank you! Just wanted to make sure it fits into THIS piece instead of another // separate // different story. News vs. Encyclopedia entry distinction rule 🙂

              1. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

                Yeah, I think that this tangent wouldn’t go into an encyclopaedia entry (though it might be in the same Wikipedia category), but it gives context for this story to see what other prosecutions are going on right now.

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  6. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    CUT THIS: At the start of his trial, Kılıç denied that he had used the ByLock messaging application which authorities say provides evidence of membership of a Gulenist terrorist organisation which pro-government media calls FETO. Kılıç was quoted as saying that two forensic reports found no evidence that ByLock had ever been downloaded on his phone.

  7. [ This comment is from a user you have muted ] (show)

    Published this but cut a lot out because there was not attribution and/or sufficient sourcing. Some was editorializing/opinion. Will cut and paste some of it herei n case it can be attributed properly and added back in.

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